Root server sharing under supervision of Ecobytes?

This thread stated off as a discussion about infrastructure for unMonastery, but quickly evolved into a more general discussion about integrating various communities within the Ecobytes community supported hosting activities.

So far signed up for this track are

It also involves thoughts about a

The orginal conversation started off as below.

I moved 5 posts to a new topic: unMonastery

@almereyda I understand that currently you have at least one http://www.hetzner.de/de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex40

I would suggest aiming to find 6 organizations to share root machine, preferably upgrading at some point to http://www.hetzner.de/de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex60

We would also need 6 extra IPs http://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/IP-Adressen/en

This way every organization would get ~1/6th of such machine and cover at minimum 2 months of cost per year.

Additionally you could offer accounts on hosted services like Prosody (XMPP), Sentry (Errors), Piwik (Analytics), Uptime, Mail server etc. which most likely no one would want/need to host on separate VM

Organizations (potentially interested)

  • unMonastery @aporia
  • Future Of Waste @unteem
  • Ecobasa @ArneBo
  • Open Steps (check with Alex)
  • OuiShare (check with Auli)
  • hackers4peace @elfpavlik (I would ask someone to cover part of the cost)

How does it sound?

Yes we would be interested having an ecobasa vmachine! +1 for shared piwik and sentry! Thank you for mentioning! We have like two months until we have to move or pay again!

@almereyda @gualter what do you think? BTW I will see @ArneBo in next days!

@elfpavlik @ArneBo you are more than welcome to move your services and VMs to the Ecobytes ecosystem.

We could of course just buy a root server for you and let you set it up. But imho, this is less ideal from a perspective of optimizing our collective human and machine resources (load distribution, but also services). We currently have 4 root servers (2 to be scrapped soon, as we have spare CPU/RAM/HD capacity on the 2 new machines). As such, we can quickly provide you with VMs using the current infrastructure and get new root servers when the whole ecosystem needs them. This would also save you from trying to put a whole group together, or having to find a replacement of pay more if someone falls down from this small group.

As for the services, yes, certainly, we are happy to incrementaly provide shared services to the community. Mail server is available (although needing a complete migration that is kind of underway), some monitoring tools as well (munin, apticron). However, also on this area we ask for collaboration of members - if you have a need of having service X and can set it up, please say, we discuss, you implement it yourself on the machine we agree that makes the most sense.

As for costs, we have an (individual) standard membership fee of 60 €/year (5 €/month). This is enough to get access to our infrastructure and take part in the decision making process (e.g. on prioritizing the setup of “community hosted services” like Sentry), may not cover the “real cost” of a VM (depending on the needs). So, if you have more you are of course welcome to give more. And if you have less or nothing, you give less or nothing and ask for a special status (ok @elfpavlik ? :smile: ).

Even if each of you becomes a member and gives an additional donation, you will probably end up paying less than 59€/month of that root server you mentioned. We get most of our root servers from hetzner auctions, so we have already manage to significantly reduce the infrastructure costs.

And if all this sounds complicated, just ignore what I wrote and tell us what you need :wink:

And btw, since today you can also pay Ecobytes in bitcoins. Meinhard is anxious to get the first payment on his processor going. If you want to be his alpha-state angel for the new year eve, make a payment here before midnight :wink:

https://co-munity.net/ecobytes/bank/bitcoins

asked folks who might have some spare bitcoins via twitter https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/550406938128056320

in parallel i asked for sponsoring two ecobytes membership by Edgeryders + unMonastery https://edgeryders.eu/en/comment/15387#comment-15387

@almereyda @gualter I would like to re-start working on D-Space in next days, could I already start using a VM for deploying demos of various services it uses ?

Alberto agreed on ER + unMon sponsoring 2 Ecobytes memberships and will give formal OK after Jan 9th

@elfpavlik yes it should be possible. I already forward to my colleague @asdx to ask when he has time to putyour VM running.

@gualter we need to discuss getting more IPv4 addresses! working with @almereyda on some calculations…

Hello Everyone, I’m new to that platform, actually it’s my first post. I tried catch the discussion…

Seems like the machine’s specifications is not clear yet:

If you can provide me information for:

CPU: How many? Ram: How many GB/MB? HDD: How many GB? OS: Which one? and SSH-Key for root privileged user account on VM

then i key finish as soon as possible, i can deal with this today.

ciao.

1 Like

Hi @asdx, we’re discussing with the several partners how to arrange a shared, say cooperative use of a root server would work. It is currently not about adding new VMs to the Ecobytes infrastructure. I’m following up later with more details, as @auli from OuiShare also contacted me.

hi all,

from OuiShare side i mapped our needs shortly (and we’re looking for a solution to start moving sites asap):

Mails:

  • higher-traffic mail system for ouishare.net (100+ active mailboxes +, newsletters to 8-10000 ppl) + some additional low traffic domains.

Web hosting:

  • 4+ WP farms (and increasing)
  • 2+ Rails sites (+ their test versions)
  • additional apps for use and testing (Known, Drupal, …)
  • offer hosting to new community/project sites

Backup

  • of everything :slight_smile:

Possibly:

  • OwnCloud / document management & collaborative writing app / file repository for presentations and documents

More details in this doc

On finance side, OuiShare needs bills to be able to pay; also the question is: how much?

++ From management side: we’d need to be able to manage and create new minisites and domain vaults quite easily (docker? + some c-panel/plesk kind of interface), as well as e-mails. I would be the first to do that, but it should be feasible for an even less techie person.

1 Like
This post is intentionally a wiki post. Use the power.

Dear @auli, @ArneBo, @aporia @gualter, @asdx and @elfpavlik .

As OuiShare need quick solutions and Ecobasa have about two months to converge plus Edgeryders and unMonastery kind of agreed already, we can already lay out the framework of our cooperation. Fortunately, Ecobytes is offering very flexible services in this case.

Needs

The needs of the different organizations that I can overview are presented seperately below.

TransforLab

further for TransforMap

  • Ethermap
  • uMap
  • OSM Tasking Manager
  • GeoCouch

plus several smaller services like the Taxonomy Editor.

OuiShare

possibly

  • OwnCloud
  • Etherpad
  • Mailing Lists?
    • Discourse
    • GroupServer
    • Sympa
    • Mailman
  • Multiple environments
    • PHP (WordPress, MediaWiki, drupal)
    • Ruby

Edgeryders

  • Testdrives
  • Possible migration when neccessary

unMonastery

  • Blogs Ghost
  • Websites Node
  • Mail

Current State

We are actively working on deploying additional VMs and get new mail services running. Internal networking and hardening are still a bit at stakes, but progressing well.

With the additional IPs that have been acquired for TransforMap, we will soon be able to offer GroupServer Web Mailing Lists, GitLab for private repositories of version controlled files and Dokku Alternative for a flexible PaaS/IaaS hybrid hosting, which will allow us to serve virtually every hosting need. See their websites for details.

If that works out nicely, we’re only close to offering a wide range of excellent stuff like

  • Loomio
  • Discourse
  • GitLab
  • Sentry
  • Uptime
  • Taiga
  • CI ( Travis, GitLab CI, Jenkins )
  • Huginn or
  • Bip.io and

which will only be the first services to come. If we can quickly spin up complex infrastructures, our social resilience increases exponentially (t.b.p.).

Actually it makes sense for Ecobytes to rent a new root server for the new guests, as some legacy services are still going to be migrated to the already existing hosts. Finally we need to apply IPv4 subnets to the hypervisors instead of individual IPs, so supporting partners can receive reliably seperated environments.

An example calculation can be found in an Etherpad.
But of course we can also just go on updating the existing infrastructure constantly.

Outreach

The infrastructure can be further scaled on a roadmap similiar to Panamax + IndieHosters > OpenStack + OpenShift > Mesosphere.

@gualter Can we acquire the last additional IPv4 address of the respective machine for the d:space experiment now, so it doesn’t need to wait until we figure out more complicated internal routes?

Conforming with the Etherpad, we’re also trying to get in touch with

to find out if they would be willing to further extend the network of independently and fair hosted IT services. I am inviting some of them as marked above using the button below.

If we get this running, I can transfer two currently external VMs to that setup and provide another ~100 € from my private funds in the name of allmende.io to the pool.

Then we could also start thinking of using geographically spread locations for quick worldwide reachability, esp. if we imagine of scaling up to organizations like Shareable, i.e. by providing mapping services, and so forth.

Hi Everyone, Pleased to take part on the conversation. Just to express my opinion on this briefly: I would like to join with http://open-steps.org (currently hosted on 1and1):

In terms of requirements:

  • Website: Wordpress / 1 mysql DB
  • Mails: Currently 4 adresses are used. Potentially more to come
  • Application: PLP Editor + PLP Browser (html) & PLP Directory (node) & PLP Provider (node)

Of course, i would need some numbers. But if ii stays affordable i would like to be part of this great network.

Keep in touch.

Alex

I moved 4 posts to a new topic: Joint Drupal Hosting Community

Hi @elfpavlik, bimea.com would also be interested in sharing this machine!

-Jeff

One more thing regarding the whole discussion. IMHO, the questions should not be “root server sharing under supervision of Ecobytes” but rather “getting the needed infrastructure/platform/services by joining efforts with Ecobytes”.

In particular, the different needs of the collectives that have joined this discussion are probably better acommodated if we think of them as part of the whole Ecobytes ecosystem (well, the new machines only). A further server should be ordered if there is need in terms of load. Two further servers as well. But it’s important to remain flexible, allowing for increased synergy, sharing/optimization of (people/money) resources, as well as allowing for much better load balancing across servers.

UPDATE: That said, if you prefer to own an own server, nothing to oppose to it :slight_smile:

As this discussion moves to a stable point and OuiShare needs an answer soon, I propose that we go with the following community memberships and scale the Ecobytes infrastructure when needed.

Please indicate, if you need Mail hosting as it is its own topic with different requirements (Self managed on an own server and IP? / managed by the Ecobytes collective? / …).
Also the need for seperate IPs and Control Panels, often changing domains, etc. should be mentionned beforehand, so we can lay out appropriate services.

Current State

  • Donative Membership from Edgeryders @elfpavlik
    • drupal testdrives in PaaS if it makes sense to migrate to community owned self dogfooding at Ecobytes.
  • VM / PaaS for unMonastery @aporia
  • VM for a Sharetribe instance, right? @bezdomny
  • VM / PaaS / Mail for Open Steps @a_corbi
  • IndieHosters VM + IaaS / PaaS for OuiShare @auli
    • They also have Mail needs for applications and users.
    • Self hosted doesn’t yet sound too convincing to them. Therefore they intend to use what they pay for at Webfaction, where their Rails sites run.
    • Mailgun and Mandrill offer even more sophisticated integrations.
    • In terms of self dogfooding, Ecobytes invites every organization to challenge its infrastructure with their needs, so we can scale it to meet their requirements.
    • We could start this for OuiShare by staging their applications and testing them thoroughly. Also Mail Services could be an entry point.
  • VM for Ecobasa @ArneBo
  • VM for hackers4peace @elfpavlik

Open Questions

  • Future of Waste @unteem
    • Answer pending
  • GEN @elfpavlik
    • Their needs don’t seem to be outscaling the Ecobytes infrastructure. Therefore I propose we approach them again and explain our community idea again.
    • Especially in terms of drupal, connecting the efforts of Edgeryders, Ecobytes, GEN and somehow also OuiShare Labs appears reasonable to me.

Can we expect the Transition Network (also drupal?) and Elevate to be out of the discussion @gualter @elfpavlik?


If everybody agrees and applies for membership, we can start migrating your services from next week on.

Bigger organizations like OuiShare and GEN are encouraged to add a donation to their membership.

Ecobytes will make sure its machines are not overloaded and provides an additional Physical Machine if neccessary.

We’re further reaching out to other non-commercial hosting providers like IN-BERLIN or IndieHosters, to align services and share experience.